NAA GUARDIAN CAN NOT EJECT THE LAST ROUND BECAUSE THERE IS NO EJECTOR.
View Full Version : NAA Guardian .380 Problem
January 29th, 2004, 07:55 AM
My son's NAA Guardian .380 is finicky about what he feeds it. It seems to operate best on Win Silvertip Hollow Points or most brands of ball ammo.
BUT and this is a big BUT, no matter what he feeds it, it will stovepipe the last round in the magazine, every time.
It's his wife's carry piece and he is concerned about it's reliability. I have searched other forums and it seems a lot of other folks experience the same problem.
Any one out there know of a possible fix for this or does it have to make a trip back to the factory?
:banghead: :cuss: :fire:
January 29th, 2004, 08:40 AM
I have a Guardian in .32, and it does the same thing(randomly though, not always on the last round). I sent it back to the factory, they did some polishing, spring replacement, etc, and it still does the same thing, except with Silver tip. I gave up and just carry a revolver now.
January 29th, 2004, 08:57 AM
I encountered the same situation and also found that the magazine release was easy to push on firing dropping it. Thankfully, it was not my pistol. I was shooting ball ammo. Byron
January 29th, 2004, 09:17 AM
These little guns operate that way pretty much all the time as they do not have ejectors. When the extractor pulls the fired casing from the chamber, the live round underneath, contained within the magazine, moves upward under pressure from the magazine spring, thus, helping push the fired casing up as the extractor pulls it out. When the last round is fired, there is not a round in the magazine to push against the fired casing, which, commonly, gets stuck in a classic stovepipe malfunction. The condition is inherent to the gun based on its simplicity of design.
I have a Guardian in .32 ACP. Rarely, the last casing will eject, but more commonly it gets caught between the slide breechface and the chamber. I don't worry about it for two reasons. First, I don't expect to be performing speed reloads should I actually need to use it. If things have degraded to the point I'm using this gun, I am at that stage of empty the mag in their ear and run away. Second, I have practiced clearing the stoppage, just as I would with my duty weapon, and have had no problems in ejecting the spent casing, and then switching the empty magazine for a full one. These are nice little guns, and I have had no problem with mine through hundreds of rounds, and four years of carry and practice. I hope this helps.
January 29th, 2004, 09:27 AM
MICHAEL, Thanks for the very informative answer, I sincerely appreciate it.
His problem is slightly different from what you have experienced, his will not feed the last live cartridge, number six in the magazine.
If it were my gun, I would do as you have done and learn to deal with the problem. On the other hand, it's his wife's carry piece so I think I'll recommend to him to sell or trade the NAA and find a light weight S&W or Taurus .38 SPL revolver for her.
Again I thank you very much for the info.
January 29th, 2004, 09:34 AM
I have read/experienced that the case from the last spent round occasionally gets stuck between the slide and the frame. Is this a product 'failure'? Should I be concerned?
No, frankly, not at all. Yes, we are aware of, and understand the causes of, this condition. Yes, it is not an uncommon occurrence. No, we do not believe it represents a performance failure and we do not intend to try to 'correct' the condition.
The design of this pistol does not include an ejector (not to be confused with an extractor), but relies on the following action of a fresh cartridge, as it is moving up the magazine stack and towards the chamber, to push the spent extracted case out of the breech. When the magazine is empty and there is no following cartridge to exert this pressure, the spent case may simply be trapped by the slide returning forward (the slide is not designed to remain open after the last round).
When a full magazine is inserted to replace the empty one, the slide must, in any/every event ('stovepipe' or not) be re-racked to chamber a fresh round. During this process, the spent case simply falls freely out of the breech and the pistol returns to battery - as though the condition had never existed. (Please note that we are not attempting to excuse any stovepipe of a live round. If that condition exists with any of our pistols, we will be happy to rework the gun to eliminate that failure).
January 29th, 2004, 09:36 AM
For what it is worth, NAA will not acept it for waranty work on a last round stove pipe as they consider it part of the design as mentioned above. I have both the .32 and .380. I don't carry a reload when I carry it so it doesn't bother me but if I did, all I would have to do is drop the magazine, insert a new one and rack the slide just like normal and it clears itself. SO for me it is a non issue. While I respect that this is not confidence inspiring. I think that is based on experiences with other handguns and practice would overcome any hesitation about the design. But obviously there is nothing more important than someone's love one and if they want to change obviously the should do it.
January 29th, 2004, 11:11 AM
I have a Guardian .380 since last May. Bought it new. During the initial break in period I had all kinds of not feeding and stove piping problems. But it only happened with PMC ammo. After about 50 - 60 rounds those problems went away and since then it has fed Hollow points and FMJs just fine and never has given me the stove piping at the last round problem. I have shot a little over 200 rounds through it and have not had any issues with it since.
I SUGGEST YOU BUY RUGER OR KEL-TEC................................................................................................................
January 29th, 2004, 12:03 PM
MATT SUTTON, If you are a company rep for NAA your attitude sucks!!!!
People pay over $400 for a compact pistol they should be able to feel confident that it will work as advertised. Where does it say in your published owner's manual that the last spent casing will probably stovepipe and that's an OK normal condition. You say you are aware of the problem, why don't you try to fix it?
I won't trust an NAA Semi-auto as far as I can throw one and if your attitude is representative of the company you work for then I shall do all I know how to do to get the word out that your product does not live up to it's advertising and that The Guardian series is a poor investment. We bought your product because it was made in the USA, dam shame that off shore products perform better than yours. Even the little guy, Kel-Tec, will at least try to fix their problems but you say you have no intention of trying to fix your guns problems. You don't have to be a gunsmith to figure out that Kel-Tec is a better investment than NAA.
You say you have no intention of trying to correct the problem and that you don't intend to stand behind your product? Well then who do I have to speak to to get my $440 back, certainly not you I hope!
NAA DOES NOT CARE - DON'T YOU GET IT BY NOW
THEY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS INFERIOR DESIGN FOR YEARS.
THERE ARE NOT MANY GOOD SMALL POCKET AND RELIABLE 380 ACP PISTOLS OUT THERE, MOST COMPANIES ARE CUTTING EVERY CORNER THEY CAN IN ORDER TO INCREASE THEIR MARGIN OF PROFIT. IN THE LONG RUN THEY LOSE AT YOUR EXPENSE.
IF YOU WANT A DECENT 380 ACP PISTOL - ONE CHOICE IS TO LOOK FOR A MINT CONDITION COLT MUSTANG. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE COLT PONY AND I CONSIDER THE PONY A PIECE OF "JUNK"..........
NO BS HERE, I DO NOT BEAT AROUND THE BUSH.
NAA HAD THEIR CHANCE TO MAKE THEIR GUARDIAN INTO A FIRST CLASS LITTLE PISTOL BUT THEY DID IT THEIR WAY AND NOW KEL-TEC AND ESPECIALLY THE NEW RUGER "LCP" WILL EAT THEIR LUNCH. THEY CAN NOT COMPARE TO RUGER AND RUGER'S RESOURCES.
|Caliber:||.380 Auto |
|Barrel Length:||2.75" |
|Grip:||Glass-Filled Nylon |
|Rear Sight:||Fixed |
|Suggested Retail Price:|| $ 330.00|
THE NEW RUGER "LCP" AS WELL AS THE KEL-TEC HAS A BETTER EXTRACTOR AND A BETTER FEED RAMP AND IT HAS AN EJECTOR WHICH THE NAA GUARDIAN DOES NOT. THE RUGER "LCP" AND THE KEL -TEC FIRES FROM A LOCKED BREECH SO YOU WILL FEEL LESS RECOIL. THE NAA GUARDIAN IS A DIRECT BLOWBACK OPERATION.
HAVING A POLYMER FRAME IS GOOD FOR CARRY, DO NOT LET PEOPLE BS YOU. THESE PISTOLS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK FLAWLESSLY AND TO SHOOT A LITTLE AND TO CARRY ALL THE TIME.
THE OLD COLT MUSTANG HAS ALL THE BETTER FEATURES. THE MUSTANG WAS SINGLE ACTION ONLY. IF YOU HAVE A LIGHT WEIGHT MUSTANG DO NOT USE A STEEL GUIDE ROD AS IT WILL CHEW UP YOUR FRAME WITH REPEATED USE.
NAA HAS HAD MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO REVISE AND RENOVATE AND RE-ENGINEER THE "GUARDIAN" BUT THEY CHOSE NOT TO SO I CAN NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THE GREEDY OWNER. HAD HE DONE THE RIGHT THING YEARS AGO AND HE KNEW ABOUT ALL THESE PROBLEMS HE WOULD HAVE HAD A VERY FINE PISTOL TODAY.
THE NEW RUGER "LCP" WILL WHOLESALE FOR ABOUT $220.00 AND YOU JUST CAN NOT BEAT THAT, SO IF YOU JUST ADD $50.00 TO THAT YOU ARE STILL GETTING A GOOD BUY. I WOULD RECOMMEND THE USE OF CORBON POWERBALL WHICH IS A 70 GRAIN BULLET AT 1100 FEET PER SECOND.
ITS ALWAYS EASY FOR OWNERS TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THE PURCHASES THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE, AS THEY WILL NOT FACE REALITY. "IT IS WHAT IT IS"
NAA Guardian Rifling - where is it ???
NAA Guardian - Breech Face Problem FROM THE NAA MESSAGE BOARD REGARDING PROBLEMS WITH THE NAA GUARDIAN
Message Board Member
Post Number: 1
|Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 08:51 pm: |
I finaly found a guardian .380 for sale but it was used,i was tired of looking and this seemed to be what i was looking for,turns out this is a 2005 model.I took the gun to my brothers with some remington 95 gr fmjs and every other round choked almost.the spent caseing alot of times would get slammed back into the barrel,its like it wasnt picking up the new round or the spent casing just wasnt getting pushed out in time does anyone know if there was a problem with the early model .380 guardian? is it just wore out ? or was it just cheap wall mart ammo? anyways im gonna try a few diffrent types of ammo like some 102 gr +p+ and mabee a lighter load like a 90 or 92 gr i am a bit dissapointed at this point in time i can not trust this gun,it might be headed for the trash can and i will get a revolver.I like the gun the trigger pull was np the weight is np the size is perfect but i need it to be reliable any suggestions?? can it be sent back to guardian to be refurbished?
Message Board Member
Post Number: 701
|Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 09:05 pm: |
I have a very early Guardian .380. In fact, it's the first .380 to be sold from the factory as a retail sale and has a serial number in the teens. I had a few problems with light strikes on hard-primed ammo, but that was easily fixed with a tighter hammer spring (done by NAA).
It's been very reliable since then. I may take it back to NAA and have some custom work done on it and ask if there are any modifications that they suggest to older .380's, but I don't think there are any significant problems from early models. You might want to ask NAA directly about that, though.
In any case, go ahead and send me yours if it will save it from the trash. ;) It's possible all it needs is a good cleaning and oil job.
Post Number: 61
|Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 08:31 am: |
Send your Guardian back to NAA for evaluation. We will be happy to check over your new purchase for you.
2150 S 950 E
Provo, UT 84606
Include a note with your package that has your name, address, phone number, and the information listed above in your post.
Please call if you have any further questions- 1-800-821-5783.
Message Board Member
Post Number: 81
|Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 09:40 am: |
NAA Return is a Good Idea...<:-)) ~ OR ~ Well This Will Get You On The RIGHT Road To Happyness...<:-)) Its all about Springs (timing) in a Auto... they are ALL working together to get it to work... And "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" in a Automatic... Drag is a No No in a Automatic, that's why DriLube is King on a Self-defense Gun... It can Ride in you Pocket,or sit in a Drawer for a Year, and its ready to Getter-Done... What's our Motto Gunner's ~ "NO GUMMED UP GUNS" Remember~ any Shiny spot (wear) on a Auto's innerds is asking YOU for some LUBE...!!! 1) Get a New Slide Spring from NAA (and put it in the right way~direction) 2) Get a New Mag Spring From NAA (The Top Vary End of the spring faces to the Bullet end)(or a New Mag) 3) Good Quality AMMO (Fiocchi)(Remington is Crap) 4) Cleaning (brush the Chamber with a good Brass Bore Brush~ Straight through & Straight back out~ 5 times should do it~ make sure its clean) 5) Get some Remington DriLube (Teflon)(Its a Cleaner&Lube with Zero Drag~ Flush out the Extractor assembly~ Flush the firing pin hole & assembly from both sides~ now give the Slide Rails a Shot & every other moving internal part like the Hammer ect.ect. and put the gun back together, & wipe the Gun down with a Dry cloth)(Range Duty~ take the can to the range and give the slide a blast every 50 rounds just to be Nice)(DriLube does not attract Dirt, Lint, or Stain) Remington Rem DriLube http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=103872&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10612
Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics Pistol Ammunition 380AP, 380 ACP, Full Metal Jacket, 95 GR, 1010 fps, 50 Rd/bx $12.70
.380 ACP (Revolver Snubby): Average Velocity (ft/sec)
Standard Deviation and
Extreme Spreads are listed in ft/sec.
Glaser 70-gr. Safety Slug(Silver) 1299 (ES: 116/SD: 44)
Magtech Guardian Gold +P 85-gr. JHP 1075 (ES: 33/SD: 10)
Federal 90-gr. JHP 1017 (ES: 48, SD: 17)
Federal 90 gr Hydrashok 1036 (ES: 80, SD: 23)
Hornady 90-gr. XTP 933 (ES: 42, SD: 14)
Corbon 90-gr. JHP +P 1083 (ES: 45, SD: 17)
Magtech 95-gr. FMJ 964 (ES: 29, SD: 10)
Remington UMC 95-gr. FMJ 970 (ES: 32, SD: 9)
Remington 102-gr. Golden Saber 928 (ES: 70, SD: 22)
Message Board Member
Post Number: 761
|Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 10:22 am: |
SgtKnuckles is right about dry lube.
I prefer Militec
Message Board Member
Post Number: 82
|Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 02:18 pm: |
Phydeaux88,... Your right... I Should have included Militec to... Its a little better for sustained Shooting...<:-)) When I take the extra time, and swab the Slide on My .45 Auto with it a couple of times, and use a hair-dryer to dry it... Its Vary Tenacious Stuff... The Military Loves the Stuff...<:-)) Militec keeps them AR-TYPE M-4 Jamo-Matics the Troops are using in the Sand-Pit, and it Keeps them running...<:-))
Message Board Member
Post Number: 2
|Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 08:56 pm: |
Thanks to all that replied to my problem.I went to a gunshop to sign up for the carry permit class and there was a gunsmith shop next door,i thought i would get the feed ramp polished and get some good ammo too.i talked to the gunsmith and showed him my piece,after a short examination he noticed that the tip was chipped off the extractor and noteing that that dosent happen for no reason he also pointed out that the chamber and ramp were very rough in fact looked as though it was blast beaded metal that had never been polished he said it might have gotten missed in the production of the gun.so i left the gun with him he will either send for a new extractor and polish the chamber and feed ramp or send the gun to NAA.i feel better letting a gunsmith handle this than sending the gun myself Problem solved i would like to get some custom sights though,i am paranoid shipping stuff somthing always goes wrong /sigh anyways thanks for the input u guys hopfully i will be happily shooting in a few weeks